Comments - Latest Popular Stories, Instablogs Community by Ashoka

Oscar

Oscar — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

It is sad, but true.. Religion has not been spared the claws of corruption, but seems to have embraced it, joined it, to belittle and manipulate all followers.

Michael C

Michael C — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

This is a very interesting article, and it asks pertinent questions.

My take?

I’m sick and tired of all these peurile Muslims and Jews and Catholics and Protestants and Janes and Sikhs and Jihadhists and Bushes and all the other messed-up people and religions and dumb off-the-shelf-ideologies and dogmas which want to control us all.

Please leave us alone!!!

We don’t need your lessons and your centuries-old-archaic violence and prejudices.

We, the rest of us, just want peace.

Go fight your wars on another planet.

John Lennon said it.

”All I want is the truth”

And, while we’re waiting, your politico-religio-financial-mafia-interest-driven-conflicts are killing people.

Respects..

Ashoka

Ashoka — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Dear Lyon,

Man’s quest for spirituality attracts him to a a particular faith or religion.Thats where he gets trapped in the constricted view of that particular faith.Hence a faith or religion which does not gets institutionalized will always liberate one’s soul without the prying eyes of the institution itself.

Oscar

Oscar — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Ashoka,

What you said is PERFECT.. I couldn’t find the words to express myself.. I believe deeply, I have faith..but I do not and will not ”pray to or through” false gods dressed as men of sacred cloth to get to my God..

The church/temple/shrine is generally the guilty culprit preying and feeding on those who wish to truly follow.

Blah Machine

Blah Machine — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

I have a different view on the fundamental premise of religion. Historically, it was created not to liberate from worldy pleasures or to bring about equality and fairness, but to protect, preserve and empower. Remember nature and totem worship. It was all about acquistion and power. As social groups broke up and the individual emerged, resources diminished and rules of sharing and distribution had to be formulated, the scope of religion became narrower, and more self serving. It became a great disciplining tool that laid down rules, regulations and codes of coduct for the entire social group, a bit like a parallel legal system, which it is even today. So, religion was never about letting go; it was always about wanting, keeping, controlling. The moment you talk about a higher power, what else can you imagine having to do with it except reaping some of the benfits of that power? And then, what can you expect but that the most powerful has the geratest access to this higher power? Couple that origin with the reality of all resource-led conflict we see around us - wouldn’t you say that this would be a fairly predictable outcome of such a system as religion?

Religion is divisive by its very nature.. it creates groups that are opposed to each other (good vs. bad, virtue vs. vice, blessed vs. cursed, virtue vs. sin, God vs. devil, holy vs. evil... the list is endless) , speaks in absolute terms, and assumes the power to judge people... how can it be anything but corrupt?

On the flipside, I don’t see self-serving religion as an issue - after all, how does it harm anyone? It’s just another way for hapless people to feel good and reassured about themselves and believe in better futures. The problem, and I concur with your opinion there, lies in organised, insitutionalised, mass Religion. Organised religion is run by a handful of people who have the temerity to claim that they represent that higher power. They are vested with inordinate and irrational powers, and hence have the ability to condition and determine mass behaviour. Take them away - empower the common supplicant to address their own God directly and without intervention - and you will find the same Hindu/Muslim/Jain/Jew/Catholic/etc God far more benign, accepting and rational.

I think we might be making 2 mistakes - 1)confusing spirituality (which I think IS about letting go) with religion and 2)damning religion because of the misdeeds of ’religious’ people. I would be suprised if I met any religious man who was really wanting to let go of everything - if he did, why would he pray? He’d just let go, wouldn’t he?

Just because the vessel is black, it does not mean the water inside is dirty... damn the religious men, not religion, if at all you believe that religion ever had anything of any value. Or else discard the idea of religion itself - as its funadamental premise is one of inequality and power dynamics, in the garb of blessings and fulfillment.

Michael C

Michael C — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Excellent comment, this, and a pleasure to read. Thanks for taking the time to put your (correct, in my humble opinion) analysis up...

Ashoka

Ashoka — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Ms Blah,

The genesis of every religion can be traced to an individual and his quest to understand oneself.Be it Gautama Buddha,Mahavira or even Jesus...they all pushed the limits of the human soul... be it for pain or suffering and came out unscathed.They wanted to tell the world that if they an do it then every human being is capable.Somewhere that message got corrupted and their teachings was institutionalized into a religion which became self inhibiting and parochial

Blah Machine

Blah Machine — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Thank you Michael. There’s a lot of what I said in there that I wish wasn’t true, but I suppose wishing things were different doesn’t necessarily make it so. On the other hand, Obama made history this morning, and it makes you want to believe, just the tiniest bit, that a collective awakening might be not an abusrd thought, after all. Doesn’t it? Of course, it has taken many years and many hearts and lives to get here, but may be like at the start of every big avalanche is the single tiny ripple, the slightest bit of disenchantment with religion, that will one day make it possible that religion be both, self serving and unifying.

Ashoka, regardless of the origin of religion - I suspect we could go to and fro on that and not necessarily get too far - we’re probably both saying the same thing on the direction. I think the fundamental difference is in your sense of something good having gone wrong, while I cannot believe that the concept of a higher being could ever have been equalising in the first place. Buddhism and Jainism, unlike most religions, are not based on the concept of a God at all, so they are exempt from most of these discissions. And they were both reactionary, triggered by the need to resolve exactly the problems we are talking about...

Thank you both, for your comments.

It’s interesting, isn’t it, that people are willing to die for it, and there are others who don’t even believe it exists? Personally, I would like to be a believer... if only I could want badly enough to stagnate in heaven!

Sarah

Sarah — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Ayn Rand said it all the way back in 1943..at a time that was in many ways, quite similar to our time now.

”Look at the moral atmosphere of today. Everything enjoyable, from cigarettes to sex to ambition to the profit motive, is considered depraved or sinful. Just prove that a thing makes men happy–and you’ve damned it. That’s how far we’ve come. We’ve tied happiness to guilt. And we’ve got mankind by the throat. Throw your first-born into a sacrificial furnace–lie on a bed of nails–go into the desert to mortify

the flesh–don’t dance–don’t go to the movies on Sunday–don’t try to get rich–don’t smoke–don’t drink. It’s all the same line. The great line. Fools think that taboos of this nature are just nonsense. Something left over, old-fashioned. But there’s always a purpose in nonsense. Don’t bother to examine a folly–ask yourself only what it accomplishes.

Every system of ethics that preached sacrifice grew into a world power and ruled millions of men. Of course, you must dress it up. You must tell people that they’ll achieve a superior kind of happiness by giving up everything that makes them happy.

You don’t have to be too clear about it. Use big vague words. ’Universal Harmony’–’Eternal Spirit’–’Divine Purpose’–’Nirvana’–’Paradise’–’Racial Supremacy’–’The Dictatorship of the Proletariat.’ Internal corruption, That’s the oldest one of all.

It stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there’s someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master.

But if ever you hear a man telling you that you must be happy, that it’s your natural right, that your first duty is to yourself–that will be the man who’s not after your soul. That will be the man who has nothing to gain from you. But let him come and you’ll scream your empty heads off, howling that he’s a selfish monster. So the racket is safe for many, many centuries.”

Michael C

Michael C — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Amen to that. Every word of it.

Sarah

Sarah — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Ya...Ayn Rand changed my way of thinking permanently...when i finished the book it was exactly what i said! Amen!

Shiv

Shiv — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

i think religion is a structured way to come to terms with one self , a sort of guided tour

it has an expiry date based on its adaptation to change

religions not changing become extinct as decay starts setting in the same making it unfit

trouble is because competitive religion

my god is greater than yours

or god has appointed me as his protector ha ha

may be because of emotional attachment

may be to mobilize public for the loaves of power

decay begins the moment aggression & force comes in leading to violence

for me religion is just a concept

i try to face my self in the mirror every morning & night

when i am unable to face the reflection of my eyes in the mirror i know i am not at peace

relaxing in a quite moment & observing my thoughts & breath gives the impression of my mind being still

once my retreat is over i am ready to face my self

liked these words

picked up from various sermons

for me religion means just a word ok a therapy ,can try any which works with my system ,may be multiple at the risk of being confused

am i child with many fathers ?

who cares if the mother is the same period

Blah Machine

Blah Machine — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Very well said, Shiv. I think I’ve believed this for the longest time; unfortanately, it’s also too open ended for a system, and can work for individuals, but never a particular organsied religion as a whole. Which is why you don’t really believe in a religion at all, just in the idea of religion. Am glad you have found your peace, and hope that it will spread!

Leena

Leena — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Different religions came into being to understand God and attain Him. The conflict started there itself. The followers forgot the very purpose for which religions were formulated and started claiming each religion superior to the other.Its a stupid fight under a blanket of ignorance because nobody in this world has seen God and the Absolute Truth. Did God come down and say that one religion is better than the other?But still we are fighting. They don’t understand religion, they don’t understand God. The very purpose of religion is defeated. It is the base human qualities that are using the garb of religion to make themselves acceptable. Had we had a universal religion or a world without religion and only spirituality this baseness would not have got an opportunity to show itself.

Yes, connecting with oneself is indeed the first step towards discovering a true religion. It empowers a new religion- the religion of humanity, equality, compassion that culminates into a true divine quest.